spiritual gifts

What does the Bible teach as to how we are to be the Body of Christ together? How shall a Biblical assembly be led? How should each of us take part? How shall we be disciples of Jesus together?
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kevin morris
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spiritual gifts

Post by kevin morris »

Jim;
I would like to discuss the topic of spiritual gifts, who gives them and who sets them in order in the church.
jimbaum
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John 15:5

Post by jimbaum »

Welcome, Kevin!

I recommend considering John 15:5.

Good topic. May the Lord give us wisdom from His word.

Jim
kevin morris
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Post by kevin morris »

Hey Jim.
Interesting thought from Jn. 15. It is a tendency to focus on "being a servant" and forgetting that we are to be His friend. In fact His words are that He does not call us servants. Interesting.
Maybe I should hint toward the direction of my thinking. I have sat through endless sermons on the subject of "Using your spiritual gifts." You know, that passage which Jesus spoke of the unjust steward. I get the impression that God will be very unhappy with me if I don't use my spiritual gift, and the sermon is usually ended with a list of opportunities in various areas in the "church" to keep God happy with me.
I was not at all surprised this week when the pastor at the church we visited communicated to us, in essence, that we should serve anywhere so that we could hope to have the opportunity to serve in the place where we are truly gifted. I understand there is another way of looking at this from the perspective of becoming a part of a community of believers. However, I also understand, by all construction going on, that they have a business to run and they need cheap labor.
I don't want anyone to think that I intend to be slanderous or crass, but these are the types of observations I have been making, and it is not just one specific church.
I find myself in a difficult spot at the moment. I don't care to fully elaborate, but maybe the following will suffice. If I have the gifting to teach, and I offer it as a free service, then I undermine the perceived necessity of a full time paid position of "bible teacher". If I have a gift of teaching and have a better ability than a current paid position holder, then the situation is intensified. I am faced with a endless ladder that I must climb by the way of doing one thing or another in order that I may hopefully be able to do what is my ultimate passion.
It seems that we as Christians, have built or institutions and now have our systems by which we equip people to do the work of God. We pay money so that some person will spend time with us so that we might become who God wants us to be. More than this, the average christian seems to want someone who has attended bible college or seminary. People who are part of church movements condemn, either formally or informally, those who attend seminaries by calling them "cemeteries", and seminary advocates scoff at the lack of scholarship of bible colleges. Either way I am left with the impression that the power of the Holy Spirit is for sale and if I'm not buying, then I'm not going to be teaching.

Anyway, I had better end this before I say something really offensive.

Thanks for the opportunity to share my thoughts. Kevin
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Post by wackzingo »

Kevin,

I share your frustrations, and I'm sure Jim does too to some extent. My friend and myself have always joked that churches don't care anymore if their staff is Christian, they just want to know if you have a degree. When I look at what I always thought my gifts were, they have always been quite different from where I have been used. Most large Churches (Around 200+) are run like a business. I don't think it's all bad as much as it can easily get in the way. I have heard those exact sermons and I know what you are talking about.

I think Jim pointed out a very important passage of scripture. John 15 talks about remaining in the vine. I think it is important to encourage people to seek the Holy Spirit about where they should server rather than looking at what they think they are good at. Take Moses for example, he wasn't a good speaker and no one would have considered him a good speaker yet God chose him. God has an amazing way of taking what are our weakness' and not our strengths and using them instead to accomplish his will and bring glory to Himself. I have seen to many people who were good at speaking and with people who thought they should be teachers because of that. They even loved teaching. But it was obvious that they were not called by God to that position, sure people came flocking to them but there was no spiritual growth.

In my personal opinion you should first make sure that teaching is what God is calling you to do and not just what you would be good at. Second, if God wants you to teach there or somewhere else then He will make the way and open the doors. And finally, as Jim has said before, start with your family and include some friends if you so feel led.


zach
kevin morris
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Post by kevin morris »

Zach;
Thanks for the good thought. I agree.
Kevin
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Post by jimbaum »

Kevin,

I know exactly what you are talking about. And I've received numerous emails from people who have been through similar situations. I appreciate your words and Zach's on these things.

I pray our Lord would encourage you.

May the Lord help you to continue learning the word of God from Genesis to Revelation, growing as His disciple, and Jesus can be trusted to bring fruit from your life and ministry in His timing.

Please consider these words from brother Steve Phillips' book, ARE WE LIKE CHRIST: http://x.procinwarn.com/blog/?p=24

Looking forward to more discussions!

Jim
kevin morris
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Post by kevin morris »

Hey Jim:
Thanks for the reply. It is encouraging to have a place where I can talk with other Christians. I don't want to seem unthankful for your reference to and encouraging article, I am simply having a hard time reading right now. To be less ambiguous, I can't stomach it. I have read so much for so long that I have readers apathy. I no longer desire comfort from pages in a book but from people in my life.
If there is a thought that strikes you as interesting I would love to hear it. This website is the closest thing to fellowship I have had in eight months.

Kevin
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Patience and Preparation

Post by jimbaum »

Kevin,

I truly understand what you mean about not being able to stomach more reading.

One of the points I appreciated about Steve Phillip's chapter I linked to http://x.procinwarn.com/blog/?p=24 ...was that Jesus set an example for us of 30 years living in obscurity and humble obedience prior to His public ministry of 3 years.

After having been a Christian for many years, I've only recently come to appreciate the concept of how the Lord uses suffering in our lives, including periods of loneliness, to break us and remake us; to prepare us; to equip us; and to demonstrate His manifold wisdom to the principalities and powers.

Jim
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