Unity vs. Separation

Here is the place where we can discuss with one another how to be in the world but not of the world.
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anonyms

Post by anonyms »

:) hi jim,

Actually i started reading bible seriously after realizing christians who prefer to segregate according to their own understanding of God's word rather than the absolute truth it preaches. Some of them prefer to be called as catolics, protestant, anglican, etc rather than calling themselves CHRISTians and condemn each other as blasphemy. So, it just got me into curiosity why and how absolute doctrine of God is so vulnerable into misinterpretation. I really hope God will help me to understand and follow his truth as it is.....hopefully!
wackzingo
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Post by wackzingo »

It is true that the God's word is true and absolute. You are right that many individual churches will condemn other churches for disagreeing on non-essential doctrines. But for the majority of churches, although they disagree on a lot of different things they both agree that scripture alone is our guide and source of truth. So although Jim and myself may not agree on everything we both agree that only the bible is 100% correct and if there is any error, it is in our understanding not the bible.

Take for example the simple command "do not murder", it is simple but Jesus pointed out that if you hate someone it is the same as murder. So although one command can seem simple it can also have different meanings. All we can do is continue to study the Bible as you are doing and ask the Holy Spirit to help us know when its ok to disagree and when it's time to take a stand against something. I pray that the Holy Spirit will continue to teach you things as you study His word.

Brother Jim, this is a side note off topic but I think you may find this website interesting, they have become the number one investigating and reporting group on false televangelists and others who scam people.

http://www.trinityfi.org

and their humor site
http://www.wittenburgdoor.com/home.html
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Unity but not Unequally Yoked

Post by jimbaum »

Unity but not Unequally Yoked

Dear anonyms, You wrote:
Actually i started reading bible seriously after realizing christians who prefer to segregate according to their own understanding of God's word rather than the absolute truth it preaches. Some of them prefer to be called as catolics, protestant, anglican, etc rather than calling themselves CHRISTians and condemn each other as blasphemy. So, it just got me into curiosity why and how absolute doctrine of God is so vulnerable into misinterpretation. I really hope God will help me to understand and follow his truth as it is.....hopefully!
I can understand how you started reading the Bible seriously in response to what you saw among professing Christians. The issue of how we associate ourselves as followers of Jesus, and what we separate ourselves from is a hard issue, but one that must be faced.

On the one hand, look at what the Apostle Paul wrote about unity:
I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. Ephesians 4:1-6
And then see what Paul wrote about being separate:
Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. 2 Corinthians 6:14-18
We need our Lord Jesus to give us wisdom from the Bible as to how to be unified with one another and yet not yoked with those who teach a different Jesus and a different gospel.

There is much to be discussed on this subject! And it is a privilege to do so.

Jim B.
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Post by jimbaum »

This topic was moved from "Why God still calls Israel, Jacob ?"

In what way does the New Testament teach that followers of Jesus should be in unity?

In what way does the New Testament teach that we should separate from the world?

Jim B.
anonyms

No man is perfect (excluding Christ)

Post by anonyms »

Hi jim and all,

Had quite a break, was busy with my work....plz to meet u all again..........wanna share some input or anything.......

:?: ‘Nobody is perfect’ this notion is my interpretation on everyone’s spiritual status. This notion has its own positive and negative effects in my life. When someone sins or have committed something inappropriate, I would receive him or her with the proposed notion. Unfortunately, this notion brings a huge gap or halt to my own spiritual climax.

My understanding towards every failure in my spiritual life is me being less than perfect but still acceptable in the sight of God. In I Cor 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? :? Surely being holy I can see God. But what’s the thread that separates between holiness and unholiness? Is there any partition as a reference what is good and evil? Those do more good things enter the kingdom of God and less to hell? So people make own choices without relying to the Word.

Unable to reach spiritual perfection is not sin. Is it? Many a time, I thought when one reaches the peak of perfection in spirituality they will enter into glory. God may take them as a spotless bride. Perhaps many married adults would not want to reach the peak of holiness because they have some earthly needs and responsibilities like finance, children’s upbringing and undefiled carnal affections. That denotes why St Paul encourages every individual to remain unmarried except if one cannot contain in I Cor 7:9.

Several times I was afraid to look deeper into the word of God because the more I think, the more questions thunder my mind. I am not Sherlock Homes or Alfred Hitchcock and I’m not talking about crime scene or anything but everything, from the creation, origin, birth, life, death, eternity etc. The Mysteries of God! Christ is so keen to speak in parables to the multitude but revealed many things to his disciples when they were alone with him. Yet only after Christ was resurrected, his disciples comprehended many of his teachings.

~GOD BLESS!~
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Post by wackzingo »

Hello anonymous,

The concept of being perfect is an important and needs to be understood by every christian. For Christians there are two ways that we must look at perfection.

First, in our standing and relationship to God we have been made perfect forever. Hebrews 10:14 says "For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy". It's interesting to me that the word for perfect also means "finished" or "completed". There is nothing left for us to do regarding our salvation, "it is finished" we are complete and perfect. Nothing else needs to be done.


Second, we are not yet perfect in regards to how we live and act. Paul talks a lot about this in Romans chapters 4-8. Paul talked a lot about doing thing he didn't want to do and not doing things he knew to be right. But he pointed out that it was not him that was sinning but rather the sinful nature working through him.

I don't fully understand this second part. Paul's attitude almost seems almost like all the people in prison who blame their actions on their childhood. Which I guess he is, but in this case its true. But, one thing that helps me a little, if my understanding is correct...is........Paul says that we were condemned before we were ever born, before the law ever came. We were condemned because of Adam's sin and saved completely apart from the law because of Christ. The law had only one purpose, to show us our sin and need for Christ. So if my understanding is correct, our sinful actions have nothing to do with our perfection or lack of it,; They only show us our condition. But its how we respond in light of them. In other words, knowing we fall short of the law, do we trust in Christ or reject Him.

I hope I didn't confuse anyone else because I think I'm confused now, lol.

Any thoughts and comments on this would be much appreciated.
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Perfection

Post by jimbaum »

No Nirvana For the Christian

Dear anonyms

You ask very important questions, and I believe Zach's response is very appropriate.

In the Christian life, there is no "Nirvana" or "Satori". That is, there is no state where we have suddenly arrived into a state of sinless perfection or "entire sanctification" or totally squared away spiritual bliss. Even though Buddhists and Hindus and some YWAM teachers and Nazarenes teach similar concepts to these, I am convinced they are unbiblical.

The idea that those who do more good things get into heaven and those who do more bad things go to hell is NOT taught in the Bible. WE ALL are going to hell because all have sinned UNLESS we believe on the Lord Jesus. Then we are saved by Jesus' righteousness, not our own.

There is no promise in the Bible that those who achieve some high spiritual state get taken up. We are called to trust and obey Jesus if He is our Lord and Saviour. To live is Christ, to die is gain.

If someone is into continuous, unrepentant sin, they ought to examine themselves to see if they are really in the Faith. But walking with Jesus is by grace through faith from start to finish. And yet we are saved in order to do good works. Jesus tells us to be perfect. If we love Him we will obey Him. Jesus helps us!

Salvation happens in a moment when we "Believe on the Lord Jesus".

Glorification happens in a moment, when we see Jesus we will be like Him (see 1 John 3:2).

But, in between these two points is a process called "sanctification".

When we trust in Jesus and become a child of God, a disciple of our Lord, God's Holy Spirit begins the process of sanctification: He breaks us and remakes us until the day we die or are taken up to be with Him.

The Christian life has ups and downs. Some of the downs may be murder. They may be adultery. I pray not! Lord, please keep us from evil! But when we do sin:
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. 1 John 1:9-10
God is still working in our lives!
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ... Phillipians 1:6
We abide in the Vine, we trust and obey, and Jesus bears fruit in our lives. (see John 15:5)

Jim B.
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