jimbaum wrote:Theo_Book, Dale and I have discussed with you about the nature of God. We say the Lord our God is One God and eternally exists in three persons, the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit. You say there is only God the Father, who is the Spirit, and Jesus is a created being.
I agree that we have not adequately answered your questions. On the other hand you have been dismissive in an unreasonable way to our points.
Dale quoted, John 17:5, “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.” And you said this was a reference to preplanning.
If that was all I posted in response, I might agree that I had "dismissed" in an unreasonable way, but that was not all I posted. I showed a pattern found in scripture of other things that were attributed to "before the world was" and suggested that the John 17:5 example was another in the same vein. THAT constitutes evidence, not "dismissiveness."
I referred to how Jesus referred to Himself as “I Am” before Abraham was and you say He was just referring to Himself in prophecy.
Again, I showed Paul's statement that "that which was spiritual" was not first. Your response does not deal with that. My response agrees with "I am" being a simple reference to Jesus' being in prophecy prior to Abraham.
It was pointed out to you that Thomas responded to Jesus with, “My Lord, my God”. You said it was just an exclamation rather than recognition who who Jesus was.
Not really! I gave, again, a whole pattern of behaviour laid down in scripture to lead to a conclusion. You will need to explain that away to make thomas say things contrary to the circumstances. Remember, the disciples did NOT say to thomas, "God is risen." They said "We have seen the Lord." AND John himself testified what the testimony meant..."These (things) are written that ye might believe Jesus is the "SON OF GOD."If ever there was an opportunity to express trinity doctrine, this was it... All John had to say was "That ye might believe Jesus is God..." But John did not avail himself of that opportunity. He simply stated that "Ye might believe Jesus is the son of God."
Even the resurrection itself did not prove the deity of Jesus, but rather demonstrated his sonship; "...Declared to be the son of God by the resurrection from the dead." [Rom 1:3]
These are flimsy answers.
Really? In which case it should be easy to rebut them.
I join with you in "These are questions of eternal life and death. One or both of us are wrong. One or both of us are under the eternal judgment of God. God, please help us. In Jesus' name I pray."