One God in Three Persons

How shall we rightly divide the word of God on any particular topic?
jimbaum
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One God in Three Persons

Postby jimbaum » Fri Nov 24, 2006 8:59 am

This is the teaching of the Bible.

Oneness Pentecostals, Jehovah's Witnesses, and Mormons all oppose this teaching in different ways.

How can we teach them from the Bible the true nature of God?

drno77
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Re: One God in Three Persons

Postby drno77 » Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:57 pm

Hi Folks,
We can clearly see the Trinity in the Old Testament:
In Isaiah 48:16; "Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there [am] I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me."

We can also clearly see the Trinity in the New Testament:
At Jesus baptism in Luke 3:22; "And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased."

In Jesus words to his disciples in Matthew 28:19; "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"

In the teaching of Paul the apostle in 2Corinthians 3:14; "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, [be] with you all. Amen."

Interesting to note; The beginning of the Shema (meaning "listen") of Israel found in Deuteronomy 6:4-5 says "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God [is] one LORD:"
Very interesting note the word for "one" in the Hebrew is echad, the same word used in Genesis 2:24 where Scripture says that the man and his wife would be "one" flesh.
I believe this speaks of a unity rather than a singularity!

Very interesting. :D

Blessings,
Dale

Theo_Book
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Re: One God in Three Persons

Postby Theo_Book » Sat Apr 24, 2010 10:17 am

drno77 wrote:Hi Folks,
We can clearly see the Trinity in the Old Testament:
In Isaiah 48:16; "Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there [am] I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me."


Since God has taught us that HE is the Holy spirit, how can he be seen as a third person of a trinity?
Look at what God says about sending "HIS" Holy spirit;

Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: 29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit. 30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. 31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come. 32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

This is referenced in Acts two and there is no place in all of scripture where a third-person-of-a-Trinity can be identified.

Acts 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; 17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: 18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: 19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: 20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: 21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

We can also clearly see the Trinity in the New Testament:
At Jesus baptism in Luke 3:22; "And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased."


No trinity here. God expresses himself to his people in those forms with which they are most familiar, voice of Father from heaven, similar to voice on the mount in Moses' day; form of dove, similar to dove in Noah's day; And the presence of his newly commissioned son, to go into the world of the Jews and return the fathers back to the children.

In Jesus words to his disciples in Matthew 28:19; "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"


No trinity here. there is only one name, not three. name is singular, not plural. It simply references the authority by which baptism is to be offered. Both God the Father/ Holy Spirit, and his son, are in agreement as to authority. No one was ever baptized in scripture except in Jesus' name. "baptized into Christ" yet "Christ" is not mentioned in Mathew 28:19.

In the teaching of Paul the apostle in 2Corinthians 3:14; "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, [be] with you all. Amen."


Again, no trinity, as the Father sends "HIS" Spirit, not THE Spirit.

Interesting to note; The beginning of the Shema (meaning "listen") of Israel found in Deuteronomy 6:4-5 says "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God [is] one LORD:"
Very interesting note the word for "one" in the Hebrew is echad, the same word used in Genesis 2:24 where Scripture says that the man and his wife would be "one" flesh.
I believe this speaks of a unity rather than a singularity!


Actually echad references those things that are singular in nature, but exclusive; like one flesh to the exclusion of all others, one God to the exclusion of all others, one pair of socks, one bunch of bananas, one herd of cows, one flock of sheep, one cluster of grapes, one gaggle of geese, and it will always reference the number one, and always with a reference to exclusivity. There are not two pairs, two herds, two fleshes, two clusters, two gaggles, two flocks, and never will be understood that way.

So when scripture tells us there is echad Elohiym, it references one God, not two. And when this one God references himself with the first-person-singular
"I," it most certainly tells us he is not a "they" or yet an "us" or "we." The use of "they," "we," or "us" necessitates a first-person-plural adjective at the very least, if God is a plurality of person.

Jesus tells us that when He and his Father are together, they are "ouk monos" - "NOT ALONE" [John 16:32]- yet Jehovah tells us he "monos" ALONE created heaven and earth.
John 16:32 Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me [monon] alone: and yet I am [ouk monos] not alone, because the Father is with me.

If Jesus is "with the Father" in eternity, prior to his begettal in Mat 1:20, where is he? He is not "With" the Father ["ouk monos"] not beside, before, after, nowhere near God according to God's own testimony.
Isa 37:16 O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, that dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou [monos] alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth: thou hast made heaven and earth.

Isaiah 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens [monos] alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;
God

Who knows me best

Loved me just enough

to make it count the most

drno77
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Re: One God in Three Persons

Postby drno77 » Mon May 03, 2010 8:54 am

Hello Theo_Book,
Welcome to the discussion board!

I can't help but wonder if we aren't saying the same thing from different angles in the following quote.
Actually echad references those things that are singular in nature, but exclusive; like one flesh to the exclusion of all others, one God to the exclusion of all others, one pair of socks, one bunch of bananas, one herd of cows, one flock of sheep, one cluster of grapes, one gaggle of geese, and it will always reference the number one, and always with a reference to exclusivity. There are not two pairs, two herds, two fleshes, two clusters, two gaggles, two flocks, and never will be understood that way.


I do not believe in 3 Gods (inclusive).
I believe in 1 God in 3 persons (exclusive).

Just as your example shows one; bunch/pair/cluster etc.

Just as we see 3 in 1 in nature;

We see the creation in three expressions time, space and matter.

We see time in three expressions, past, present, and future.

We see space in three dimensions, height width and depth.

We see water ( one substance H2O) in three forms, liquid, solid, and vapor.

I believe in one God revealed in three Persons of One Substance.

I believe these are flawed illustrations because they are all temporal.
But I think they give an example.

It seems obvious to me that Jesus claimed many times to be God, compare Exod. 3:14 with the I Am statements by Jesus in the Gospel of John
I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am [he], ye shall die in your sins.
, and
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Also Scripture clearly shows Jesus as God in 1 Timothy 3:16;
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.


I also believe I see the Trinity clearly in John 14:21-26.

I also agree that God created everything.
Isa 37:16 O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, that dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou [monos] alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth: thou hast made heaven and earth.

and again we see that it was Jesus who created everything in John chapter 1, Colossians chapter 1, and Hebrews chapter 1.
In answer to the question posed here
If Jesus is "with the Father" in eternity, prior to his begettal in Mat 1:20, where is he?
Jesus says in John 17:5
And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.


Since God has taught us that HE is the Holy spirit, how can he be seen as a third person of a trinity?


Interesting to note that He is called both the Spirit of God, and the Spirit of Christ in Romans 8:9 ( also please check it in the context of the passage).

Seems pretty clear to me, again in John 14:26a
But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name,
, that Scripture speaks of a Third Person since the definite article "the" is used in every translation I found, (eg. the comforter, the counselor, the helper. all in respect to the Holy Spirit.) who the Father is promised to send.


If I am in any way pulling things out of context or distorting them please let me know.

Blessings to you all !

drno77

Theo_Book
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Re: One God in Three Persons

Postby Theo_Book » Fri May 07, 2010 7:15 am

(drno77) Hello Theo_Book, Welcome to the discussion board!

I can't help but wonder if we aren't saying the same thing from different angles in the following quote.[/quote]

(TB)
Actually echad references those things that are singular in nature, but exclusive; like one flesh to the exclusion of all others, one God to the exclusion of all others, one pair of socks, one bunch of bananas, one herd of cows, one flock of sheep, one cluster of grapes, one gaggle of geese, and it will always reference the number one, and always with a reference to exclusivity. There are not two pairs, two herds, two fleshes, two clusters, two gaggles, two flocks, and never will be understood that way.

drno77) I do not believe in 3 Gods (inclusive).
I believe in 1 God in 3 persons (exclusive).

Just as your example shows one; bunch/pair/cluster etc.

Just as we see 3 in 1 in nature;

We see the creation in three expressions time, space and matter.

We see time in three expressions, past, present, and future.

We see space in three dimensions, height width and depth.

We see water ( one substance H2O) in three forms, liquid, solid, and vapor.

I believe in one God revealed in three Persons of One Substance.

I believe these are flawed illustrations because they are all temporal.
But I think they give an example.


Nope! Coincidence of number three does not serve as ecvidence of a trinity any more than any other number.
Seven Spirits of God.
Seven candlesticks.
Seven days in Week.
Seven Ewe lambs set aside by Abraham.
Jacob served seven years for Rachel
Laban persued Jacob seven days.
Many many more examples

Four directions; North, South, East, West.
Four Horseman of Apocalypse.
Eden's river became four.
Four kings fought five.
Four portions reserved for Egyptians
Four sheep restored for a sheep
Four rings of gold on the Ark of Covenant
Four corneres on Ark of Covenant
Four feet on Ark of Covenant
Four cubits = breadth of curtain on ark of Covenant
Many, many more examples

See what I mean?
Twelve Apostles
Twelve sons of Jacob.
Twelve thrones for Apostles.
Twelve sons of Ishmael.
Twelve tribes of Israel.
Twelve well of water.
Moses built altar with twelve pillars.
Twelve stones in the river.
Twelve cakes to be baked.
Twelve oxen to pull six wagons.

Actually the number three shows up 426 times in scripture; four = 391; 5 = 270; 6 = 190; 8 = 80; nine = 49; 10 = 223; 11 = 24; and twelve = 125.
so if all you are going by is the number of times a number shows up in sxcripture, so far, three wins. but then TWO shows up with 703. So by that reconing, God should show up as a Dual deity. But, wait, look at the number "one." 1695 times. Nope, God has to be one. His number shows up more than any other number.

(dnro77)
It seems obvious to me that Jesus claimed many times to be God, compare Exod. 3:14 with the I Am statements by Jesus in the Gospel of John I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am [he], ye shall die in your sins., and Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.


Jesus was claiming to be "that prophet" of whom Moses spoke in Deu 18:18; even John was though to be "that prophet" upon occasion. When Jesus szaid "Before Abraham was, I am," He was only saying that he was before Abraham in prophecy, as in Gen 3:15. Proof of this is ofund in Paul's letter to Corinth - I Cor 15:45-46 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit THAT WAS NOT FIRST which is SPIRITUAL, but that which is NATURAL; and afterward that which is spiritual.

(drno77)
Also Scripture clearly shows Jesus as God in 1 Timothy 3:16;
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.


"Manifested" does not mean incarnated, it means "made known."[John 1:31]
In John 9:3 a man was cured so God could be manifested to men, in the cure.
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is phaneroo [revealed] from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is phaneroo [manifest] in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
It was aMANIFEST IN THEM not TO them. And they are not God.

(drno77)
I also believe I see the Trinity clearly in John 14:21-26.


Nope! God IS the Holy Spirit, it is an extension of his expression of himself, and Jesus is his son.
Joel 2:28 "I will pour forth of MY SPIRIT.." Acts 2:16-17 "This is that which was spooken by the prophet Joel - "I will pour forth of MY SPIRIT..."
There is no place in scripture where you can identify a third person of a trinity Holy Spirit.

(drno77)
I also agree that God created everything.
Isa 37:16 O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, that dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou [monos] alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth: thou hast made heaven and earth.
and again we see that it was Jesus who created everything in John chapter 1, Colossians chapter 1, and Hebrews chapter 1.
In answer to the question posed here If Jesus is "with the Father" in eternity, prior to his begettal in Mat 1:20, where is he? Jesus says in John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.


Slow down my friend, you are mixing way to many verses that are not connected.
You correctly quote Isa 37:16, then ignore it's implication expressed by "monos" when shown how Jesus used it to show that when he is with the father they
are "ouk monos" not "monos." [John 16:32]

As for his glory "Before the world was, that is a figure of speech used many times by God himself to show the preplaniing that went into the plan of salvation.
God promised Jesus glory, before the world was created; God hid his wisdom for our glory before he created the world; We were chosen in Christ before God created the world; We were given by God, works to perform, before he created the world; We were given purpose and grace in Christ, before God created the world; We were given the promise of eternal life before God created the world; Jesus was foreordained to be the sacrificial lamb before the foundation of the world; God loved Jesus before the foundation of the world. All these things were already set to happen, before the world was even begun in creation.

Jesus references one of several things that were prepared before the world was created:

HIDDEN WISDOM TO BE REVEALED FOR OUR GLORY:
1 Cor 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained BEFORE THE WORLD unto our glory:

CHOSE US IN CHRIST BEFORE THERE WAS A CHRIST:
Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

ORDAINED GOOD WORKS FOR THE SAINTS TO PERFORM:
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath BEFORE ORDAINED that we should walk in them.

CALLED US WITH A HOLY CALLING IN CHRIST BEFORE THE WORLD WAS:
2 Tim 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus BEFORE THE WORLD BEGAN,

PROMISED US ETERNAL LIFE BEFORE THE WORLD WAS:
Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised BEFORE THE WORLD BEGAN;

PREPARED A SACRIFICIAL LAMB BEFORE THE WORLD WAS:
1 Pet 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20 Who verily was foreordained BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, but was manifest in these last times for you,

PROMISED JESUS GLORY BEFORE THE WORLD WAS:
AS EXPRESSED IN ISAIAH 52:13 Behold, my servant shall deal prudently, he shall be exalted and extolled, and be very high. AND FULFILLED IN John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee BEFORE THE WORLD WAS. And John 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD.

WHICH SERVED AS INCENTIVE FOR JESUS TO FULFILL HIS MISSION: Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who FOR THE JOY that was SET BEFORE HIM endured the cross, DESPISING the SHAME, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

WHAT EVIDENCE IS THERE THAT JESUS WAS RELUCTANT TO SUFFER THE DEATH PREPARED FOR HIM?
Heb 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; 8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; 9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Col 1:16 is a reference to the fact that Jesus made changes in the universe; specifically in the realm of heavenly authorities; WHETHER THEY BE thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers.
COL 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, WHETHER THEY BE thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Jesus is "before all things" because he was elevated to first position in the creation, as the first one to be raised from the dead, without a intermediate prophet; and the first one raised from the dead to die no more. Col 1: 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

(drno77)
Since God has taught us that HE is the Holy spirit, how can he be seen as a third person of a trinity?

Interesting to note that He is called both the Spirit of God, and the Spirit of Christ in Romans 8:9 ( also please check it in the context of the passage).

Seems pretty clear to me, again in John 14:26a But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name,, that Scripture speaks of a Third Person since the definite article "the" is used in every translation I found, (eg. the comforter, the counselor, the helper. all in respect to the Holy Spirit.) who the Father is promised to send.


When an entity is known throughout scripture by many names, "Holy spirit," "the Holy Spirit," "The Spirit," "The Spirit of God," "The holy Spirit of God,"
it should not be thought to be strange when any one is used over any other.

(drno77)
If I am in any way pulling things out of context or distorting them please let me know.


To accuse you of anything whatsoever, I would have to be God and be able to read your heart. Your post presents to me an honest and sincere attempt to express what you believe to be the truth. I only hope my own post can come across as honest as yours did.

I think we are both seeking to learn how to express diferent perspectives that come from the heart, and also try to reach another perspective than that wo which we have been brought through study. Who has the right to accuse?

not me!

Blessings on you.

God, who knows me best

loved me just enough!
God

Who knows me best

Loved me just enough

to make it count the most

drno77
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2010 6:07 am

Re: One God in Three Persons

Postby drno77 » Wed May 12, 2010 4:02 pm

Another thought on this same topic.
In the book of Isaiah (Isaiah 48:16), the Father and the Spirit send the Son.
In the book of John (John 14:26), seems the Father and the Son send the Spirit.
Finally in the book of Revelation (Revelation 21:3), God Himself is promised to dwell with men.

Once again, seems clearly to point to the Trinity.

Blessings,
drno77

Theo_Book
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Re: One God in Three Persons

Postby Theo_Book » Fri May 14, 2010 5:17 am

drno77 wrote:Another thought on this same topic.
In the book of Isaiah (Isaiah 48:16), the Father and the Spirit send the Son.
In the book of John (John 14:26), seems the Father and the Son send the Spirit.
Finally in the book of Revelation (Revelation 21:3), God Himself is promised to dwell with men.

Once again, seems clearly to point to the Trinity.

Blessings,
drno77


Why do you speak of "God himself" (Your revelation reference) as though it is not already referenced in the Father, who according to Jesus' own testimony, is "The only true God?"

Genesis 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, [Grk. egw eimi o` Theos] I am [Heb = El Shaddai] the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

I.........egw.....nominative 1st person singular pronoun
am........eimi....indicative present active 1st person singular verb = "to be"
the.......o`......nominative masculine definite article singular
God.......Theos...nominative masculine singular noun

When God says of himself "I am the being" [Exo 3:14] using first-person and singular nouns and verbs, how can it possibly reference a plural person singular being? It destroys grammatical principles.

I........ egw = nominative singular pronoun
am..... eimi = indicative present active 1st person singular
the..... o` = nominative masculine singular definite article
being..wn = participle nominative present active masculine singular

God asserts he is a single-person being.

And Jesus is the image of his what?
Hebrews 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the [xarakteer] express image of his person, [upostasews] genitive feminine singular.

"Xarakteer" is the pattern made in a rubber stamp when you want to duplicate something in print. It is the exact opposite of the original, so that when pressed onto a surface, replicates the original in complete agreement. When Christians have been stamped with the image of Jesus, we bear the image of the father.

Paul speaks of it thusly: "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." [Gal 2:20]

Scripture establishes that God is a singular being and a singular person.
God

Who knows me best

Loved me just enough

to make it count the most

Theo_Book
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 8:43 am

Re: One God in Three Persons

Postby Theo_Book » Fri May 14, 2010 2:40 pm

drno77 wrote:Another thought on this same topic.
In the book of Isaiah (Isaiah 48:16), the Father and the Spirit send the Son.
In the book of John (John 14:26), seems the Father and the Son send the Spirit.
Finally in the book of Revelation (Revelation 21:3), God Himself is promised to dwell with men.

Once again, seems clearly to point to the Trinity.

Blessings,
drno77


Would it be out of line to offer the precise that John 1:1 is the bedrock scripture of trinitatian belief system?
God

Who knows me best

Loved me just enough

to make it count the most

jimbaum
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Re: One God in Three Persons

Postby jimbaum » Fri May 14, 2010 3:51 pm

Greetings, Theo Book,

Who was it that spoke to Moses via the Burning Bush?

Jim

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Re: One God in Three Persons

Postby Theo_Book » Sat May 15, 2010 1:56 am

jimbaum wrote:Greetings, Theo Book,

Who was it that spoke to Moses via the Burning Bush?

Jim


I am not convinced God spoke "via" the bush so much as "from the midst of" the bush.

How is that a response to my question?

Would it be out of line to offer the precise that John 1:1 is the bedrock scripture of trinitatian belief system?
God

Who knows me best

Loved me just enough

to make it count the most

jimbaum
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Re: One God in Three Persons

Postby jimbaum » Sat May 15, 2010 5:56 am

Ex 3:13-15

13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?

14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.


John 8:57-59

57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Theo_Book
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Re: One God in Three Persons

Postby Theo_Book » Sat May 15, 2010 7:43 am

jimbaum wrote:Ex 3:13-15

13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?

14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.


John 8:57-59

57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.


Wrong Conclusion!

When Moses was born, is recorded in Exodus. Jesus first shows up in Gen 3:15 IN PROPHECY. Before Moses was, Jesus already was being prophesied.
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Re: One God in Three Persons

Postby jimbaum » Sat May 15, 2010 8:37 am

What do you mean, "Wrong conclusion"? All I did was quote the Bible.

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Re: One God in Three Persons

Postby Theo_Book » Sat May 15, 2010 11:15 am

jimbaum wrote:What do you mean, "Wrong conclusion"? All I did was quote the Bible.


O.K. So are you telling me you did not conclude that Jesus predates Abraham? That's what trinitarians usually conclude from that verse. Have I misread your position?
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Re: One God in Three Persons

Postby jimbaum » Sat May 15, 2010 11:25 am

You concluded correctly that I would conclude that Jesus is claiming to be the same person that spoke to Moses in the burning bush.


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