KJV Mis-Translations

How has God preserved His word? How has the enemy tried to pervert the word of God?
wackzingo
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Post by wackzingo »

It's Hebrew and according to their language ra' can mean either, it depends what context it is being used.
This is what I have been trying to say. Translation is a process in which fallible men study and read scripture in one language and then make a choice on how the word should be translated to another language in the context of the passage. It's not a clear cut method in which words can be translated in only one way. People who believe that the KJV or any version for that matter, is the only accurate version is seriously misguided. They are simply guilty of believing the version that best supports how they think certain words should be translated.
I do understand what you are trying to say here God does not create evil (unless you're an extreme calvinist) but He is in control of all things it is He and He alone who rules His creation according to His will not that of false gods.
I don't believe God creates evil but He does as you say control all things. I do believe in the context of this passage it says He creates peace and calamity. But you say God does not create evil, if you read what you said is the perfect preserved Word of God it says, "I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things". There is no getting around this, the KJV says God creates Evil. This is wrong...The KJV is wrong here. Just like the NIV translated certain passages wrongly so is the KJV in this passage.

Evil and Calamity ARE NOT THE SAME THINGS. Take for example the saying "Yeah, right". It can mean, "yes I agree" or "I don't agree". Depending on how it's said and the context of how it's used it can mean completely opposite things. The two possible meaning are not even similar.
Those atheists and christian scolars can argur til the cows come home but this is what I believe God is trying to get across here.
The point biblebeliever, beefchuck, and you is that the KJV is the only accurate infallible english translation. One reason is that it has been said that it doesn't contradict itself and no one can find error in it like they can with new translations. But this is one place atheists have found error by using the KJV but not new translations. They use only the KJV when quoting this verse because it clearly says GOD CREATES EVIL.

As I have been saying, all translations have errors and misunderstanding because word meaning change over time, they are translated by fallible men, and we see thing from different points of view.
David
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Post by David »

How can any of us be of one mind if others claim errors in everything we read? I can understand why an atheists would, but why you? Why would you have me doubt? Are you saying God cannot preserve His word? Dang I'm ticked off.

All say it again verses 5-8 (you know the one athiests have such a problem with) are very sriking in light of Persian beliefs. In their sacred writings such as the Zend-Avesta, the Persians gave the primary place to Ormazd, the one true living God. They gave Ahriman a very large place as the supernatural foe of God, who is in constant conflict with Him. One was the God of light the other wass the spirit of of darkness. One was the God of goodness the other the spirit of war. One was the God of goodness the other the spirit of evil. In answer to this and as though addressing Cyrus (read chapter all of chapter 45) God said in effect, "I am the one true and living God. Beside me there is no other. I create peace and I create evil. I create light and I create darkness. There is no other power that can share omnipotence with Me."

Verse 7 says "I make peace, create evil." Some would have you believe God foreordained everthing that takes place on earth. He has foreordained that man should sin so that He might have opportunity to display His grace. But thats not the issue. God was refering to evil in the sense of calamity (ra' as used in the original hebrew). If everything is beautiful God says this is from me. If there is a earthquake God is behind that as well. (Shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it? (Amos 3:6)). God takes responsibilty for EVERYTHING that occurs but He is not always the one doing the work sometimes He permits others, for instance He permitted Satan to try Job.

BUT! The point in Isaiah 45:7 is that there are no two great powers in the universe in conflict with each other, two Gods one a good God the other an evil . Rather there is only one God.

We can discuss the truth or you can argue with atheists and those biblical scholars on the national geographic channel.
wackzingo
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Post by wackzingo »

David,

There is only one reason why the world looks at Christianity and the bible and wonders why we fight so much. It's because language changes and so different translations are made to reflect the changes in meaning. Then you have these old KJV Idol worshipers that come along and say, "Why were the old days better?". They claim their Idol is far more superior to any other "perversion". They demand that everyone learn their old language and sayings to understand scripture. They refuse to accept that language and times change and so God might possibly speak to a new generation in their language. They put God in a box and refuses to believe that He would use anything other than their language.

Just a unity in the Body of Christ isn't about agreeing on everything, but its about acknowledging that we are all different, we see things differently but we all agree and are united by one thing...Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

Likewise unity among Christians when it comes to translations will only come when people stop claiming their Idol is the only Word of God and recognize that there are different translations because language changes and they are translated by fallible men. Unity will only come when we realize that God's word doesn't change but language does and so translations do and there will be errors as long as fallible men translate them. Infallibility was something that no translator have claimed and something that God never promised.

There is no doubt in my mind that the KJV has just as many errors as the NIV. Is one more accurate than the other? I don't think so but I do know that for me and many other people today one is more readable than the other. I work with teens all day long, and I have seen to many kids who can't even understand most proper English today and the KJV is completely unreadable to them...so what are they suppose to read? Where is God's Word for them? If God is not the God of confusion then why is God's Only Infallible English KJV Translation confusing to so many young people today?
wackzingo
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Post by wackzingo »

David,

It's not my intention to make you mad or accuse you of anything. But the as I stated above people have made a version their idol instead of the Word of God. The Word of God isn't a paper book and isn't a version. To look at it as simply a version or a paper book is to make it a tangible item which becomes an idol. The item's become idols not the God's Word. Words in and of themselves are just tools that God chose to communicate with us.

I believe without a doubt that the original manuscripts were without error 100%. I also believe that God has preserved His Word through many different translations. I don't believe most English translations contain serious errors when it comes to the essentials...meaning the Who is Christ, What Christ Did, How is man Saved, etc.
jimbaum
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Post by jimbaum »

Please try to discuss things without offending. I'm one to talk. Sometimes I think it is necessary to risk offending people to ensure they are awake and so they don't just think they are listening to the normal Evangelical Churchianity drivel.

But... I think that David and Zack are both awake and listening. Each of us needs to humble ourselves before the Lord and be willing to learn from each other. Not that we will agree. But these are very important issues. One or both of you are wrong. At least one of the three of us, probably two of us, maybe all three of us are wrong on this issue.

It is a very important issue. Where is the word of God? How has God preserved His word? How has Satan tried to pervert it?

There is no question but that our Lord has preserved His word. There is no question but that Satan has tried to pervert the word.

Please refer to the following posts:

How shall we edify one another as we discuss?

Jim B.
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