!st Corinthians 1:21 & the 'Modern' PERversions...

How has God preserved His word? How has the enemy tried to pervert the word of God?
Biblebeliever
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!st Corinthians 1:21 & the 'Modern' PERversions...

Post by Biblebeliever »

If teaching an untruth about God blasphemes God, then consider the following,

We MUST be careful of our WORDS...

I heard a preacher on the radio quote this verse,

1Corinthians 1:21 For since, in God's wisdom, the world did not know God through wisdom, God was pleased to save those who believe through the foolishness of the message preached.

That particular verse is from the Holman Christian Standard Bible, and reads the same in MOST other 'modern' versions. That preacher doesn't give much thought to what he is saying, for that verse (Holman Version) says that God calls the GOSPEL foolish!

Yes it does!

Diagram the sentence, it is God's point of view here, not man's.

I am aware of the verses that say MAN calls the Gospel foolishness, this IS NOT them!!!

The modern versions say they make the Bible easy to read.

But if the same bibles say DIFFERENT things, then they are NOT the same.


EXAMPLES from the text under discussion...

1Corinthians 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe .(FOOLISH METHOD)
King James Bible

1Corinthians 1:21 For since, in God's wisdom, the world did not know God through wisdom, God was pleased to save those who believe through the foolishness of the message preached. (FOOLISH MESSAGE)
Holman Christian Standard Bible

1Corinthians 1:21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. (FOOLISH MESSAGE)
New International Version which is published by Rupert Murdock

1Corinthians 1:21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. (FOOLISH MESSAGE) New American Standard Bible

1Corinthians 1:21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. (FOOLISH MESSAGE)
New King James Version

Diagram the sentence, you see that this verse is GOD'S POINT OF VIEW, not man's.

In the KJB "the foolishness of preaching" is GOD'S point of view of the METHOD He has chosen for people to be saved!

The "foolishness of the message preached." in the HCSB and other versions, is a HERESY of GOD'S point of view of the MESSAGE, NOT the method!

It is GOD calling the Gospel 'FOOLISHNESS'!

THAT COULD NEVER HAPPEN!

Has not that preacher who gave little thought to what he was saying, BLASPHEMED GOD by preaching a lie?

And IF the preacher holds forth that version as authored by the HOLY SPIRIT of God, has he not BLASPHEMED the Holy Spirit?

God is NOT the author of confusion, and the HOLY SPIRIT has NOT inspired lies,

John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
In the service of the TRUTH, the LIVING WORD, JESUS CHRIST,

Craig

Psa 138:2 ... thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.
wackzingo
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Post by wackzingo »

Welcome to the discussion biblebeliever,

An important key to understanding scripture and interpreting it accurately is context. Starting in verse 18 it says:
18For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 19For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. 20Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. 22For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: 23But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 24But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. 25Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. 26For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: 27But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 28And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: 29That no flesh should glory in his presence. 30But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: 31That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
Verse 18 starts out by saying the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing but for us who are saved it is the power of God. What is the power of God? The method of preaching? Or is it the message of the cross on which the sins of the world were destroyed and taken away by the blood of Christ?

Then in verse 19 God says "Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world?". Does He say this because He confounds them by a method of speaking orally? Is it really the act of speaking to people that is foolish to the world? How can something so common among the pagans be the foolishness God uses to confound the wise in this world? Or could God be talking about the message of the cross again? Not the preaching in and of itself but the message that is preached? Doesn't Paul call this the "Foolishness of the cross"?

Then in verse 21 it says foolishness of the act of preaching but in modern translations it says the foolishness of "what" was preached. What fits better into the context of the passage?

But the most important passage is found in verse 29-20 "29That no flesh should glory in his presence. 30But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption


Verse 29-30 tells us that God uses the things mentioned above so that we cannot glory in His presence and it is Christ Jesus who is made to us wisdom and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption because we cannot glory in ourselves.

Again, if verse 21 is talking about the act/method of preaching we can glory in our preaching. That's what we have today, church hoppers who go around looking for the "Good Preaching" referring to the method/style rather than the message that is preached.

It seems clear to me that modern translation are more accurate in saying it is through the foolishness of what is preached that men are saved. It is through the foolishness of the Gospel, the foolishness of the Cross that we are saved, through the foolishness of Christs blood we are made righteous.

Again if foolishness of preaching is the method God has chosen for men to be saved? Does that mean that men cannot be saved without God's method? What about those who never heard a preacher or sermon? What about all those people who just picked up their bible and read the good news? Is it really a method of preaching or message of the Cross that saves men?
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Post by Biblebeliever »

***message of the Cross***

The message of the CROSS, is the GOSPEL.

It is the POWER of GOD.

The verses I show, say that GOD IS CALLING THE GOSPEL FOOLISH.

PERIOD,

THERE IS NO OTHER VIEW, IF YOU CAN DIAGRAM A SENTENCE, AND READ AND COMPREHEND ENGLISH. IT IS GOD'S POINT OF VIEW HERE!


THAT STATEMENT "the foolishness of THE MESSAGE ", as GOD'S POINT OF VIEW is a lie from the PIT.


IT SAYS THE SAME AS, "the foolishness of THE GOSPEL"!!!


And since it is GOD'S POINT OF VIEW HERE, IT IS A LIE, PERIOD


GOD COULD NOT AND WOULD NOT CALL THE GOSPEL FOOLISH, HE CALLS IT THE POWER OF GOD!

MEN, and DEVILS CALL THE GOSPEL FOOLISH, PERIOD!
In the service of the TRUTH, the LIVING WORD, JESUS CHRIST,

Craig

Psa 138:2 ... thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.
Biblebeliever
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Post by Biblebeliever »

One step further, the SUBJECT of the MESSAGE of the GOSPEL is Jesus Christ,

Since it is GOD'S POINT OF VIEW HERE, NOT MAN'S,

"God was pleased "

1Corinthians 1:21 For since, in God's wisdom, the world did not know God through wisdom, God was pleased to save those who believe through the foolishness of the message preached. (FOOLISH MESSAGE)
Holman Christian Standard Bible

***God was pleased to save those who believe through the FOOLISH MESSAGE of JESUS CHRIST, ***

If you can stomach that, there is something WRONG with your VIEW OF GOD'S WORD!

HERE IS HOW HE SEES HIS WORD...


Psa 138:2 ...thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.


WHO IS ABOVE ALL GOD'S NAME?

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

And VILE men such as Wescott & Hort and their MODERN ILK DARE TO TRIFLE WITH THE WORD OF GOD!!
In the service of the TRUTH, the LIVING WORD, JESUS CHRIST,

Craig

Psa 138:2 ... thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.
wackzingo
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Post by wackzingo »

The Gospel is foolishness.

Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
That was from the KJV. ACCORDING TO THE KJV it was God who chose the foolish things, what is the foolish things God chose? It is saying God chose the foolish. It doesn't say GOD chose the foolish thing in they eyes of man. It seems to me your points support the NIV and modern versions.


THE GOSPEL IS FOOLISHNESS. THE MODERN TRANSLATIONS ARE MORE CORRECT. That doesn't mean the KJV is wrong, but because language changes so does people's understanding of what words and phrases mean.
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Post by Biblebeliever »

WHO'S POINT OF VIEW IS 1 Cor 1:21?

Nevermind

Don't bother answering that, it is obvious we have nothing to discuss in this matter

period

I will NOT hear defense of BLASPHEMY,

that you can not see the blasphemy is between you and GOD.

read the articles
http://www.geocities.com/brandplucked/articles.html

but of course you won't, for in the articles you will find truth, such as the TRUTH that the verses refuted (1 John 5:7) and REMOVED from the Modern PERversions, as NOT IN THE 'ORIGINALS' were QUOTED by the early Church fathers in the 1st & 2nd century.


The WORD of GOD was being corrupted when PAUL WAS WRITING,

2Co 2:17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

MAKING THE 'OLDEST IS BEST' ARGUMENT (to be kind) PLUM IGNORANT!
In the service of the TRUTH, the LIVING WORD, JESUS CHRIST,

Craig

Psa 138:2 ... thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.
wackzingo
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Post by wackzingo »

I'm sorry if you feel we cannot discuss these things.

Are you all knowing? Why isn't it possible you could be wrong in some areas? How come everything you believe and point of view you hold is truth and everyone's else is blaspheme? Is it possible there are more than one view of something? Isn't it possible you could be wrong?

I sure know I could be wrong...
Biblebeliever
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Post by Biblebeliever »

***I could be wrong***

Yes you are,

read the articles yet?

Of course not they will prove this, "I could be wrong", to be true!

We are talking about GOD'S WORD here,

Psa 138:2 ..thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

You would THINK yourself careful about not blaspheming His name, but the PERversions do JUST THAT!

BEHOLD, a PERversion CALLS JESUS CHRIST A LIAR,

Joh 7:8 Go ye up unto this feast: I go not up yet unto this feast; for my time is not yet full come. KING JAMES BIBLE

Joh 7:8 You go up to the feast yourselves. I am not going up to this feast because my time has not yet fully arrived." New English Translation

HE WENT TO THE FEAST

THAT VERSE IN THE NET MAKES HIM A LIAR

A BOOK THAT CALLS GOD A LIAR IS NOT A BIBLE, PERIOD!!!


A PERSON THAT SAYS THAT THAT VERSE WAS AUTHORED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT, HAS JUST BLASPHEMED THE HOLY SPIRIT!!!

SERIOUS STUFF HERE, HUH?


This is one of HUNDREDS of verses that the PERVERSIONS PERVERT! THAT IS WHY THEY ARE PERVERSIONS!

I did not say we could not discuss these things, read the articles and discussion will ABOUND!

Here a PERVERSION calls Jesus Christ a SINNER!

Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. KING JAMES BIBLE

Mat 5:22 But I say to you that anyone who is angry with a brother will be subjected to judgment. And whoever insults a brother will be brought before the council, and whoever says 'Fool' will be sent to fiery hell. New English Translation

Jesus was ANGRY when He chased out the moneychangers!

THIS WAS HIS CAUSE

Joh 2:17 And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.

According to that FILTHY PERversion, the NET, He sinned!

Read the articles, all of 'em, and come back with DISCUSSION...!
In the service of the TRUTH, the LIVING WORD, JESUS CHRIST,

Craig

Psa 138:2 ... thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.
jimbaum
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Post by jimbaum »

Craig,

I request that you list your references that you recommend people read in the topics I've created for such references.

In these other topics you should discuss and explain, mostly in your own words.

I request that you not make it a prerequisite for others to read your list of articles before you are willing to discuss these issues with them.

Jim
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Post by Biblebeliever »

This isn't fun and games.

A BOOK THAT CALLS GOD A LIAR IS NOT A BIBLE, PERIOD!!!

A PERSON THAT SAYS THAT THAT VERSE WAS AUTHORED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT, HAS JUST BLASPHEMED THE HOLY SPIRIT!!!

SERIOUS STUFF HERE, HUH?

The Holy Spirit always agrees with the word and will never act independently.

[ THIS IS HOW WE KNOW PERVERSION WHEN WE HEAR IT! John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:]

A defender of blasphemy is a blasphemer!

Tit 3:10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;

I bleieve that, I WILL do that, as God gives me light to understand that.

There is NOTHING TO DISCUSS till I hear truth from a blasphemer.

1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

To defend God's WORD is to defend HIS HOLY NAME

Psa 138:2 ..thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.


AND this FIGHT is NOT NEW,

2Co 2:17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

AND if you wish to sit on a fence and referee, that is your perogative,
it IS your back yard,

I'll leave you to your fun,

and games...
In the service of the TRUTH, the LIVING WORD, JESUS CHRIST,

Craig

Psa 138:2 ... thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.
jimbaum
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Post by jimbaum »

Craig,

You are a brother in Christ trying to persuade other professing Christians because you love Jesus and you love His word and you love your brethren.

Let's persuade, not attack.

Jim
wackzingo
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Post by wackzingo »

Craig,

Let me ask you a serious question:

If I go and read all the articles, and still disagree are you open to discuss these things?

Because in your eyes I would just be denying the only real truth.

Are you here to discuss or preach?

I hope you want to discuss these things...

Acts 17:11

11These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

It isn't only testing things against scripture to see if they are true, but its receiving things with all readiness of mind. I hope you will be open to discuss these things with us...
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Post by jimbaum »

Craig,

I would very much appreciate if you would outline your understanding of how God has preserved His word in the topic of that name.

Thanks,

Jim
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Post by jimbaum »

Craig,

It seems like your approach is similar to what I have seen with coercive cult-like groups such as "Church of Christ" or Oneness Pentecostals or Jehova's witnesses.

They have the same attitude that if you disagree with them or are slow to agree you must be an instrument of Satan.

If you and I truly belong to Jesus we don't have to treat each other like that.

Let's persevere with one another in love trusting that our Lord Jesus will use everything for good and the truth will win out.

Jim
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Post by David »

I know what biblebeliever is going through and wackzingo for that matter. ;) I have at times become sooo frustrated, I'll speak or point something out and get this deer in the head lights look. I'm saying to myself DON"T YOU SEE HOW COME YOU CAN'T SEE? IT PLAIN AS DAY TO ME! KABOOM then my head explodes and my testimony goes right out the window

I spent quite a few years in the SEUS working in drug interdiction. When I found one kilo I didn't stop there and celebrate it gave me probable cause to now do what we then called a destructive search to find more. Normally we found more contraband and the boat was in a million pieces. But that one kilo made the rest of the boat suspect opening the door to a more invasive search.

What I'm getting at is the A.V. KJ Bible has been around many a year and I for one have yet to find anything that couldn't be explained with a history lesson or someone knowledgable in the greek or hebrew texts or customs of the day. In other words I had to study.

But when I read in some bibles where Jesus Christ and Satan are described as being the same or Jesus is described as the son of Joseph and Mary it gives me propbable cause to suspect the entire book. Why would I want to continue with something that I now should and rightfully so suspect?

So, looking at the below examples ask yourself which one did God say, because he didn't say both! Is Jesus the morning star? Why would I want to continue reading some book that says Lucifer is?

Passages from http://www.biblegateway.com/

Psalm 12:6-7

The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

The above promise from the King James Bible tells us that God intends to preserve His WORDS forever. Notice how the new versions destroy this promise by making you think the context is God's PEOPLE rather than His WORDS:

NIV....... you will keep us safe

NASB... Thou wilt preserve him

NRSV... You, O Lord, will protect us

REB...... you are our protector

LB......... you will forever preserve your own

NAB...... You, O Lord, will keep us

Isaiah 7:14

Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Notice how some new versions attack the Virgin Birth of Christ by robbing Mary of her virginity. A young woman or a maiden is NOT necessarily a virgin:

NRSV... young woman

REB...... young woman

NWT..... maiden

Luke 2:33

And Joseph and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him.

Here the new versions attack the Virgin Birth by telling us that Joseph was Christ's father:

NIV....... The child's father

NASB... His father

NRSV... the child's father

REB...... The child's father

NWT..... its father

NAB...... the child's father



Isaiah 14:12

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Revelation 22:16 tells us that Jesus Christ is the "Morning Star". The King James Bible never gives this title to anyone else. However, in some new versions, Jesus Christ and Satan are the same, because some versions have taken the liberty to call Satan the "morning star" in Isaiah 14:12. Although some versions do not go so far as to call Satan the "morning star," they still throw out the name "Lucifer".

NIV....... morning star

NASB... star of the morning

NRSV... Day Star

REB...... Bright morning star

NWT..... you shining one

NAB...... morning star

Daniel 3:25

He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

This is an excellent Old Testament verse which shows that Jesus Christ existed long before He was born in Bethlehem. But not so with newer versions:

NIV....... a son of the gods

NASB... a son of the gods

NRSV... a god

REB..... a god

LB........ a god

NWT.... a son of the gods

NAB..... a son of God (vs. 92)

Colossians 1:14

In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Satan hates the Atoning Blood of the Lord Jesus Christ, so we shouldn't be surprised to find the blood missing in modern translations:

NIV....... redemption, the forgiveness of sins

NASB... redemption, the forgiveness of sins

NRSV... redemption, the forgiveness of sins

REB..... our release is secured and our sins are forgiven

NWT.... we have our release by ransom, the forgiveness of sins

NAB...... redemption, the forgiveness of our sins

Acts 8:37

And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

This verse is very important because it places a definite condition upon water baptism: one must first BELIEVE ON CHRIST. Many modern versions throw the entire verse out of the Bible:

NIV....... entire verse missing

NRSV... entire verse missing

REB...... entire verse missing

NWT..... entire verse missing

NAB...... omits entire verse, but re-numbers the verses so you won't miss it

II Corinthians 2:17

For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

You can imagine how this verse must be a thorn in the flesh to the modern translators who are busy CORRUPTING the word of God day and night. So, do they repent of their sins and get right with God? Of course not:

NIV....... peddle

NASB... peddling

NRSV... peddlers

REB...... adulterating the word of God for profit

LB......... hucksters

NWT..... peddlers

NAB...... trade on the word of God

NKJV.... peddling

II Timothy 2:15

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

This is the one command in the New Testament to "study" and "rightly divide" God's word:

NIV....... Do your best...correctly handles

NASB... Be diligent...handling accurately

NRSV... Do your best...rightly explaining

REB...... Try hard...keep strictly to the true gospel

LB......... Work hard...Know what his word says and means

NWT..... Do your utmost...handling the word of truth aright

NAB...... Try hard...following a straight course inpreaching the truth

NKJV.... Be diligent...rightly dividing
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